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	<title>Comments on: What&#8217;s happening at the Economist?</title>
	<link>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/11/23/the-economist-at-its-misguided-worst/</link>
	<description>networks, languages, and learning 2.0</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:30:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Brian King</title>
		<link>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/11/23/the-economist-at-its-misguided-worst/#comment-1472</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/11/23/the-economist-at-its-misguided-worst/#comment-1472</guid>
		<description>Good for you, Ken! I agree. There's no much crap written about learning Mandarin these days. And it's really sad when it's written by columnists for prestigious newspapers who should know better.

Remember, Mandarin, with it's 373 tones and 60,000 characters, is the world's hardest language!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good for you, Ken! I agree. There&#8217;s no much crap written about learning Mandarin these days. And it&#8217;s really sad when it&#8217;s written by columnists for prestigious newspapers who should know better.</p>
<p>Remember, Mandarin, with it&#8217;s 373 tones and 60,000 characters, is the world&#8217;s hardest language!</p>
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		<title>By: oblomov</title>
		<link>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/11/23/the-economist-at-its-misguided-worst/#comment-752</link>
		<dc:creator>oblomov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 05:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/11/23/the-economist-at-its-misguided-worst/#comment-752</guid>
		<description>As a British expat who has lived in Greater China since 1989 and began learning Mandarin Chinese in 1992 I have to disagree with those of you who claim that learning Chinese is time wasted and will not help one get a better job.  I can also say that it doesn't take that long to learn to speak Mandarin with a fair degree of fluency if you put yourself in the right environment.  I spent a year at uni in China and then a year working for a local trading company in Taiwan and could speak fluently by the end of that time.  My written Chinese was only intermediate but I could type basic letters and read all that was required on a daily basis.  When I went back to Hong Kong I got a job within a week and was paid 25% more than my non Chinese speaking colleagues.  At that time Hong Kong was a British colony so we were all locally employed.   Throughout my career I was always paid more than someone with similar experience and education who could not speak Chinese.  I no longer work as I have decided to stay at home and raise my children but I try hard to get them to learn Chinese.  Unfortunately they seem to take the view, picked up at their international school, that they do not need to learn Chinese and are somewhat resistent.  In terms purely of future earning power, it is probably true to say that a law degree or an accountancy qualification will be more flexible and bring greater financial rewards than the study of Chinese. However if you only had all 3.........I think it is wrong to say that caucasian people cannot learn Chinese as well as a Chinese person can learn English.  It is also wrong to say that a caucasian person cannot become bicultural.  This takes time as it does for a Chinese person.  The only competitive advantage the Chinese person who goes overseas to sudy and returns here to work has over the caucasian person is that they might be cheaper because they might be willing to send their kids to a local school and might be willing to live in a smaller house.  I say might because if they themselves have had the advantage of an international education it is likely that they will want the same for their kids and it is this component that makes the real difference to the cost of living here and therefore the salary sought.  That and the fact that foreigners can have more children so need more living space. However even as a non working spouse because I am fluent in Mandarin I have choices that some of my expat friends do not have and certainly an easier life. I learned French for 9 years at school and German for 3 and although I use German as I married a German, all that time learning French could be said to have been a complete waste of time (for me). When I was at school Latin, French plus one other language was compulsory.  We had a choice of German or Spanish.  Now that same school I went to offers Mandarin. My children learn Mandarin as a first foreign language and Spanish as the second.  Since language learning is an academic exercise when kids are at school they may as well learn these languages as no-one really knows where they or their future spouse will choose to live and work. I certainly had no idea I would spend more than half my life to date in China when I sat there staring out of the window of my French classroom at a gloomy Scottish afternoon!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a British expat who has lived in Greater China since 1989 and began learning Mandarin Chinese in 1992 I have to disagree with those of you who claim that learning Chinese is time wasted and will not help one get a better job.  I can also say that it doesn&#8217;t take that long to learn to speak Mandarin with a fair degree of fluency if you put yourself in the right environment.  I spent a year at uni in China and then a year working for a local trading company in Taiwan and could speak fluently by the end of that time.  My written Chinese was only intermediate but I could type basic letters and read all that was required on a daily basis.  When I went back to Hong Kong I got a job within a week and was paid 25% more than my non Chinese speaking colleagues.  At that time Hong Kong was a British colony so we were all locally employed.   Throughout my career I was always paid more than someone with similar experience and education who could not speak Chinese.  I no longer work as I have decided to stay at home and raise my children but I try hard to get them to learn Chinese.  Unfortunately they seem to take the view, picked up at their international school, that they do not need to learn Chinese and are somewhat resistent.  In terms purely of future earning power, it is probably true to say that a law degree or an accountancy qualification will be more flexible and bring greater financial rewards than the study of Chinese. However if you only had all 3&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;I think it is wrong to say that caucasian people cannot learn Chinese as well as a Chinese person can learn English.  It is also wrong to say that a caucasian person cannot become bicultural.  This takes time as it does for a Chinese person.  The only competitive advantage the Chinese person who goes overseas to sudy and returns here to work has over the caucasian person is that they might be cheaper because they might be willing to send their kids to a local school and might be willing to live in a smaller house.  I say might because if they themselves have had the advantage of an international education it is likely that they will want the same for their kids and it is this component that makes the real difference to the cost of living here and therefore the salary sought.  That and the fact that foreigners can have more children so need more living space. However even as a non working spouse because I am fluent in Mandarin I have choices that some of my expat friends do not have and certainly an easier life. I learned French for 9 years at school and German for 3 and although I use German as I married a German, all that time learning French could be said to have been a complete waste of time (for me). When I was at school Latin, French plus one other language was compulsory.  We had a choice of German or Spanish.  Now that same school I went to offers Mandarin. My children learn Mandarin as a first foreign language and Spanish as the second.  Since language learning is an academic exercise when kids are at school they may as well learn these languages as no-one really knows where they or their future spouse will choose to live and work. I certainly had no idea I would spend more than half my life to date in China when I sat there staring out of the window of my French classroom at a gloomy Scottish afternoon!</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Ferguson</title>
		<link>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/11/23/the-economist-at-its-misguided-worst/#comment-553</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Ferguson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/11/23/the-economist-at-its-misguided-worst/#comment-553</guid>
		<description>Bertrand Russell is supposed to have said that the time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.  I apply this to the economic argument advanced against learning Mandarin (or Scottish Gaelic, or, heaven forfend, Latin): not all language learning is related to economics.

Maybe it is for you, in which case you'll choose not to squander your assets.  Despite the best wishes of economists and Ayn Rand, though, human beings don't make choices based on sheer logic.

Ken's comments about anecdotal evidence are on target.  As Ann Pincus said, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bertrand Russell is supposed to have said that the time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.  I apply this to the economic argument advanced against learning Mandarin (or Scottish Gaelic, or, heaven forfend, Latin): not all language learning is related to economics.</p>
<p>Maybe it is for you, in which case you&#8217;ll choose not to squander your assets.  Despite the best wishes of economists and Ayn Rand, though, human beings don&#8217;t make choices based on sheer logic.</p>
<p>Ken&#8217;s comments about anecdotal evidence are on target.  As Ann Pincus said, the plural of &#8220;anecdote&#8221; is not &#8220;data.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/11/23/the-economist-at-its-misguided-worst/#comment-207</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:59:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/11/23/the-economist-at-its-misguided-worst/#comment-207</guid>
		<description>I agree that this article from the Economist was very bad indeed. Blank statements and unqualified generalizations have no place in good journalism. All of Ken’s rebuttals are valid.

It appears that an argument has begun in this comments section and I’d like to add my two cents. It’s true that competency in a foreign language, in and of itself, will rarely get anyone a good job. I believe that it is also true that certain people can live full and happy lives, as an expat or otherwise, knowing only their native language.

That said, one must also ask oneself: can illiterate people live happy and full lives? Can one be happy and successful if one has never learned to drive a car? Can one die of old age content without the ability to swim? Can people do well in business without the use of a computer? The answer to all of these questions is a resounding yes, however, why would anyone intentionally choose such ridiculous limitations? Being a competent bilingual personal, or better yet a polyglot, is very rewarding on a personal and economic level. If you don’t believe me, ask ANYONE who has a high level (and many who have a low or intermediate level) of fluency in a foreign language.

Don’t learn the clarinet, the saxophone is more fun. Don’t bother with cricket, football is much more popular. Don’t get a doctorate in philosophy, an MBA makes more money. These statements are all as asinine as saying, “Don’t learn Mandarin; learn French or German instead.”  It is small-minded and obtuse to discourage others from learning Mandarin because one person was too lacking in resources, motivation or talent to learn it well him or herself.

I doubt that China will surpass the USA in the next twenty years but it will definitely play a more leading role on the world stage. Counting on their ability to know English and be experts in western culture is just a bad idea. Does this mean that EVERYONE should learn Chinese? I don’t think so but it surely wouldn’t be a waste of time if everyone did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that this article from the Economist was very bad indeed. Blank statements and unqualified generalizations have no place in good journalism. All of Ken’s rebuttals are valid.</p>
<p>It appears that an argument has begun in this comments section and I’d like to add my two cents. It’s true that competency in a foreign language, in and of itself, will rarely get anyone a good job. I believe that it is also true that certain people can live full and happy lives, as an expat or otherwise, knowing only their native language.</p>
<p>That said, one must also ask oneself: can illiterate people live happy and full lives? Can one be happy and successful if one has never learned to drive a car? Can one die of old age content without the ability to swim? Can people do well in business without the use of a computer? The answer to all of these questions is a resounding yes, however, why would anyone intentionally choose such ridiculous limitations? Being a competent bilingual personal, or better yet a polyglot, is very rewarding on a personal and economic level. If you don’t believe me, ask ANYONE who has a high level (and many who have a low or intermediate level) of fluency in a foreign language.</p>
<p>Don’t learn the clarinet, the saxophone is more fun. Don’t bother with cricket, football is much more popular. Don’t get a doctorate in philosophy, an MBA makes more money. These statements are all as asinine as saying, “Don’t learn Mandarin; learn French or German instead.”  It is small-minded and obtuse to discourage others from learning Mandarin because one person was too lacking in resources, motivation or talent to learn it well him or herself.</p>
<p>I doubt that China will surpass the USA in the next twenty years but it will definitely play a more leading role on the world stage. Counting on their ability to know English and be experts in western culture is just a bad idea. Does this mean that EVERYONE should learn Chinese? I don’t think so but it surely wouldn’t be a waste of time if everyone did.</p>
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		<title>By: Shanghai Expat</title>
		<link>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/11/23/the-economist-at-its-misguided-worst/#comment-103</link>
		<dc:creator>Shanghai Expat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/11/23/the-economist-at-its-misguided-worst/#comment-103</guid>
		<description>Ciaran, you're continually making the wrong argument.  I never said that a math degree wasn't useful, I'm an engineer originally so I studied my fair share.  I just stated the obvious, that it doesn't help you communicate in Chinese.  I never said anything about substituting 4 years studying a language in place of a math degree, the two are not exclusive and even if so, would merit serious discussion about what was more useful depending on the intended career.

As for your mock interview, if the job was for anything to do with China, all other things being equal with another candidate, the interviewer would respond with an offer letter.

As for other examples, there are plenty, including the very ones that you mentioned...  what you don't think they do banking, selling and trading in China?  The market is on fire here...  anyone with banking and Chinese language skills is incredibly marketable.  I know at least 20 such individuals who are doing deals, trading, sourcing manufacturers, M&#38;A, recruiting, etc. where their Chinese abilities either make them uniquely qualified or put them ahead of the pack.

Frankly, I find your position remarkably naive and narrow minded, if you believe that "making friends" with people, Chinese or not is not enormously useful.  This ability is what separates leaders from everyone else, especially at a time when virtually every MNC is dying to get into the China market and build stronger relations with the Chinese government.  whether you're acquiring a Chinese company, or selling software to a Chinese company, or trying to open an R&#38;D lab in China, or sourcing a shoe manufacturer in China, there's no doubt that Chinese helps and is often necessary.

Are those enough examples for you?  As for spotting "cultural differences", such misunderstandings have started wars in the past...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ciaran, you&#8217;re continually making the wrong argument.  I never said that a math degree wasn&#8217;t useful, I&#8217;m an engineer originally so I studied my fair share.  I just stated the obvious, that it doesn&#8217;t help you communicate in Chinese.  I never said anything about substituting 4 years studying a language in place of a math degree, the two are not exclusive and even if so, would merit serious discussion about what was more useful depending on the intended career.</p>
<p>As for your mock interview, if the job was for anything to do with China, all other things being equal with another candidate, the interviewer would respond with an offer letter.</p>
<p>As for other examples, there are plenty, including the very ones that you mentioned&#8230;  what you don&#8217;t think they do banking, selling and trading in China?  The market is on fire here&#8230;  anyone with banking and Chinese language skills is incredibly marketable.  I know at least 20 such individuals who are doing deals, trading, sourcing manufacturers, M&amp;A, recruiting, etc. where their Chinese abilities either make them uniquely qualified or put them ahead of the pack.</p>
<p>Frankly, I find your position remarkably naive and narrow minded, if you believe that &#8220;making friends&#8221; with people, Chinese or not is not enormously useful.  This ability is what separates leaders from everyone else, especially at a time when virtually every MNC is dying to get into the China market and build stronger relations with the Chinese government.  whether you&#8217;re acquiring a Chinese company, or selling software to a Chinese company, or trying to open an R&amp;D lab in China, or sourcing a shoe manufacturer in China, there&#8217;s no doubt that Chinese helps and is often necessary.</p>
<p>Are those enough examples for you?  As for spotting &#8220;cultural differences&#8221;, such misunderstandings have started wars in the past&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ciaran</title>
		<link>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/11/23/the-economist-at-its-misguided-worst/#comment-99</link>
		<dc:creator>Ciaran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2007 17:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/11/23/the-economist-at-its-misguided-worst/#comment-99</guid>
		<description>Imagine one goes in for a job interview:
Interviewer: So what special skills do you have?
Interviewee: Well I can make friends with Chinese people! I'm sooo talented!
Give me a break ShanghaiExpat, 
Really do you think studying Chinese for all those years, spending all that money (not to mention the opportunity cost) is still worth it?
Love your last comment about a maths degree - believe or not if you specialise in that discipline, the world is your oyster. Investment Banks, sales and trading, employers in general will come knocking at your door.
Research the issue why dont ya, check out the amount of employers who look for people with numerate degrees.
I still don't find your argument compelling.
So tell me besides your law job, can you inform me of any other professions where it will be of benefit? You're really clutching at straws
What is your argument anyway - we should spend 4 years  studying Hanyu so we can spot those few small 'cultural differences' that our company might experience in conference calls.

Kids don't study Chinese, do something useful with your time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Imagine one goes in for a job interview:<br />
Interviewer: So what special skills do you have?<br />
Interviewee: Well I can make friends with Chinese people! I&#8217;m sooo talented!<br />
Give me a break ShanghaiExpat,<br />
Really do you think studying Chinese for all those years, spending all that money (not to mention the opportunity cost) is still worth it?<br />
Love your last comment about a maths degree - believe or not if you specialise in that discipline, the world is your oyster. Investment Banks, sales and trading, employers in general will come knocking at your door.<br />
Research the issue why dont ya, check out the amount of employers who look for people with numerate degrees.<br />
I still don&#8217;t find your argument compelling.<br />
So tell me besides your law job, can you inform me of any other professions where it will be of benefit? You&#8217;re really clutching at straws<br />
What is your argument anyway - we should spend 4 years  studying Hanyu so we can spot those few small &#8216;cultural differences&#8217; that our company might experience in conference calls.</p>
<p>Kids don&#8217;t study Chinese, do something useful with your time.</p>
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		<title>By: Shanghai Expat</title>
		<link>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/11/23/the-economist-at-its-misguided-worst/#comment-90</link>
		<dc:creator>Shanghai Expat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 07:36:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/11/23/the-economist-at-its-misguided-worst/#comment-90</guid>
		<description>Ciaran, what exactly is it that you disagree with?  I never said that you can't build relations in English, what I said is that everything being equal, Chinese speakers have an advantage building relations with native Chinese.  I can't believe that you would seriously dispute that.

As far as the Chinese craze for speaking English, that's nothing new.  The same is true in Korea, Japan, and Taiwan and has been so for a long time, but it does not mean that ability to speak those languages won't help.  I work with lawyers from all those countries who have been educated in the U.S. and their English is good.  But you should see what happens when I break out my Taiwanese.  The same that happens when I speak Mandarin in China, everything becomes easier and more comfortable.  In countries that relationships carry so much weight, it's a huge advantage.

Furthermore, despite the good English, do you not notice in your conference calls with the U.S. how many misunderstandings there are, how many cultural references are missed, how many jokes are missed, and how quite Asian people are?  I find myself jumping in all the time to clear things up...  second language will almost always be second language, except for the select few that lived extensively abroad.  Even then, first generation Chinese immigrants in the U.S. often hang out with with people just like themselves.

As for the business perspective, of course expats are on borrowed time.  That's the whole idea...  every company wants to reduce costs and localize, but it's not much different than in the U.S. where companies do layoffs all the time.  As always, workers need to constantly need to build on their existing skills.  In my case, Chinese language skills are allowing me to build strong relations with key local people that will make me more valuable at the end of my expat term than in the beginning.  That's something that a math degree can't do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ciaran, what exactly is it that you disagree with?  I never said that you can&#8217;t build relations in English, what I said is that everything being equal, Chinese speakers have an advantage building relations with native Chinese.  I can&#8217;t believe that you would seriously dispute that.</p>
<p>As far as the Chinese craze for speaking English, that&#8217;s nothing new.  The same is true in Korea, Japan, and Taiwan and has been so for a long time, but it does not mean that ability to speak those languages won&#8217;t help.  I work with lawyers from all those countries who have been educated in the U.S. and their English is good.  But you should see what happens when I break out my Taiwanese.  The same that happens when I speak Mandarin in China, everything becomes easier and more comfortable.  In countries that relationships carry so much weight, it&#8217;s a huge advantage.</p>
<p>Furthermore, despite the good English, do you not notice in your conference calls with the U.S. how many misunderstandings there are, how many cultural references are missed, how many jokes are missed, and how quite Asian people are?  I find myself jumping in all the time to clear things up&#8230;  second language will almost always be second language, except for the select few that lived extensively abroad.  Even then, first generation Chinese immigrants in the U.S. often hang out with with people just like themselves.</p>
<p>As for the business perspective, of course expats are on borrowed time.  That&#8217;s the whole idea&#8230;  every company wants to reduce costs and localize, but it&#8217;s not much different than in the U.S. where companies do layoffs all the time.  As always, workers need to constantly need to build on their existing skills.  In my case, Chinese language skills are allowing me to build strong relations with key local people that will make me more valuable at the end of my expat term than in the beginning.  That&#8217;s something that a math degree can&#8217;t do.</p>
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		<title>By: Ciaran Doyle</title>
		<link>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/11/23/the-economist-at-its-misguided-worst/#comment-86</link>
		<dc:creator>Ciaran Doyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 08:46:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/11/23/the-economist-at-its-misguided-worst/#comment-86</guid>
		<description>I disagree ShanghaiExpat. Firstly I make relationships too with the Chinese, through English! Believe me in 10,20 years China will have grown yes, but also will the quality of English-speaking Chinese. On average their vocab will widen, their accents more American, their grammar like our European counterparts. Examine the numbers of kids, teenagers in China studying English, those middle-class parents pay top-dollar for native 'white' teachers.
Not only are many studying English, but look at the numbers going to Western colleges. Another thing to examine, look at the amount of these Western educated new grads working for Western companies in Shanghai and Beijing, still working at a fraction of our wage demands. I've recently completed a thesis on Expats in China, and one interesting thing I found was that yes companies are reducing benefits, wages, perks. Its simply another form of outsourcing - if you do speak Chinese and have Chinese work experience - yes like a worker at a car-manufacturer in the US, your job too will be under threat from low-cost economies.
Really I might be wrong - and I hope I am - but after extensive research I simply dont think spending so much time, learning a language which linguists consider to be one of the world's toughest to have any economic benefit at all.
As the Economist article stated there is an opportunity cost involved with studying Chinese. If you want to become wealthy there's more than one way to skin a cat, study mathematics,finance, accountancy - back in the the UK and Ireland they're crying out for people in those areas, and will be compensated accordingly.
Look up Monster.co.uk how many employers are looking for people with CHinese skills? Compare it with German, French, Italian, or the above mentioned subjects.
And unfortunately ShanghaiExpat I don't wish to remain here nor leverage my position. The only thing China offers us expats is a higher standard of living, if we had the same back in the West I feel the majority of us would be gone home in an instant</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree ShanghaiExpat. Firstly I make relationships too with the Chinese, through English! Believe me in 10,20 years China will have grown yes, but also will the quality of English-speaking Chinese. On average their vocab will widen, their accents more American, their grammar like our European counterparts. Examine the numbers of kids, teenagers in China studying English, those middle-class parents pay top-dollar for native &#8216;white&#8217; teachers.<br />
Not only are many studying English, but look at the numbers going to Western colleges. Another thing to examine, look at the amount of these Western educated new grads working for Western companies in Shanghai and Beijing, still working at a fraction of our wage demands. I&#8217;ve recently completed a thesis on Expats in China, and one interesting thing I found was that yes companies are reducing benefits, wages, perks. Its simply another form of outsourcing - if you do speak Chinese and have Chinese work experience - yes like a worker at a car-manufacturer in the US, your job too will be under threat from low-cost economies.<br />
Really I might be wrong - and I hope I am - but after extensive research I simply dont think spending so much time, learning a language which linguists consider to be one of the world&#8217;s toughest to have any economic benefit at all.<br />
As the Economist article stated there is an opportunity cost involved with studying Chinese. If you want to become wealthy there&#8217;s more than one way to skin a cat, study mathematics,finance, accountancy - back in the the UK and Ireland they&#8217;re crying out for people in those areas, and will be compensated accordingly.<br />
Look up Monster.co.uk how many employers are looking for people with CHinese skills? Compare it with German, French, Italian, or the above mentioned subjects.<br />
And unfortunately ShanghaiExpat I don&#8217;t wish to remain here nor leverage my position. The only thing China offers us expats is a higher standard of living, if we had the same back in the West I feel the majority of us would be gone home in an instant</p>
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		<title>By: Shanghai Expat</title>
		<link>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/11/23/the-economist-at-its-misguided-worst/#comment-83</link>
		<dc:creator>Shanghai Expat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/11/23/the-economist-at-its-misguided-worst/#comment-83</guid>
		<description>John and Ciaran, I am an expat in China, but have exactly the opposite opinion as do the two of you when it comes to the importance of Mandarin at work.  Sure, you can get along without it and many expats never even make the attempt to learn the language.  But it's extremely short sighted to say that it wouldn't be a big plus in many cases on your resume!

I happen to speak fluent Chinese and the difference between myself and my more language limited foreign colleagues is like night and day.  Simple fact, I build relations with my Chinese colleagues much more quickly than they do, get to hear all the stuff that they would not say to the laowai, and as a manager, I understand their issues much more quickly.  As a lawyer by trade, I hear all the comments that judges and government officers have about laws and cases that leave non-Chinese speakers with blank stares.

Most expats may be in China because of skills that can't be found locally, but even competition for those jobs would favor a Chinese speaker.  Furthermore, most expat positions only last a few years.  If you want the option of staying and really leveraging the experience, better learn the language.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John and Ciaran, I am an expat in China, but have exactly the opposite opinion as do the two of you when it comes to the importance of Mandarin at work.  Sure, you can get along without it and many expats never even make the attempt to learn the language.  But it&#8217;s extremely short sighted to say that it wouldn&#8217;t be a big plus in many cases on your resume!</p>
<p>I happen to speak fluent Chinese and the difference between myself and my more language limited foreign colleagues is like night and day.  Simple fact, I build relations with my Chinese colleagues much more quickly than they do, get to hear all the stuff that they would not say to the laowai, and as a manager, I understand their issues much more quickly.  As a lawyer by trade, I hear all the comments that judges and government officers have about laws and cases that leave non-Chinese speakers with blank stares.</p>
<p>Most expats may be in China because of skills that can&#8217;t be found locally, but even competition for those jobs would favor a Chinese speaker.  Furthermore, most expat positions only last a few years.  If you want the option of staying and really leveraging the experience, better learn the language.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/11/23/the-economist-at-its-misguided-worst/#comment-82</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:55:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/11/23/the-economist-at-its-misguided-worst/#comment-82</guid>
		<description>This is disheartenting indeed. Had the Economist told me sooner, I wouldn't have wasted so much time getting to know the hundreds of Chinese I met in China. I mean, who could have known that the millions of Chinese who can't speak English were so void of any worthwhile things to talk about? I'm just happy I don't have to continue learning such a useless language!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is disheartenting indeed. Had the Economist told me sooner, I wouldn&#8217;t have wasted so much time getting to know the hundreds of Chinese I met in China. I mean, who could have known that the millions of Chinese who can&#8217;t speak English were so void of any worthwhile things to talk about? I&#8217;m just happy I don&#8217;t have to continue learning such a useless language!</p>
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