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	<title>Comments on: Stunted</title>
	<link>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/12/05/stunted/</link>
	<description>networks, languages, and learning 2.0</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Nedzer</title>
		<link>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/12/05/stunted/#comment-13692</link>
		<dc:creator>Nedzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 16:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/12/05/stunted/#comment-13692</guid>
		<description>Kudos to you Ken, for your insightful article. I do feel that things will change in China regarding the emphasis on rote as opposed to creativity.

Why do I think so?
Well, long time ago in Dublin, I did a test (as we all did unknowingly)in sixth class to determine our secondary education. A test mostly about Gaelic and math with some history and geography thrown in. I'm useless at math and still am today and as for the Gaelic language. I absolutely hated it. It was torture to recite those verb tenses and it just did not seem like a living language to me. Plus I hated my teacher who often hit me and anyone else within arms distance.

It was decided (by my teacher)that I should go to the Christian Brothers. I must not have done too bad on the test, as everyone else was told they should learn a trade.
Anyways, long story short - I was not allowed study art in the CBS due to my poor score in languages (meaning Gaelic) and was obviosly barred from studying French.
Those 2 subjects where denied to me. I remember my parents trying to talk with the headmaster... to no avail.
The point is this, back then in Ireland the education system was as bad as China is today. It's come along way since. China has 20 years to go. Maybe longer. I'm sorry to say.

I was labeled as a kid that was retarded at languages and therefore uncreative/retarded in any artistic endeavor.
It was only after I left school did I find an interest in languages and art. I went on to be interviewed on national TV (Cursai) in the Gaelic language. What was I interviewed about? My creativity in the art of Goldsmithing and jewellery design. I later went on to design the logo/seal of Office for the Irish senate. 
I never did learn French and I've forgotten most of my Gaelic, what with 12 years in the States and 3 in China. I have however become adept at Mandarin, (better than yours but not as good as J. Pasden's).

That little test way back when I was 12, deeply effected my life and caused me and many like me great hardship in the years to come. A little like the college entrance exams here in China.

As you can see I still have a chip on my shoulder.

Education has always stifled creativity and it amazes me how so much music, art and literature has come out of a country (Ireland), then again, we must be doing somethign right, though for the life of me I never witnessed it. Come to think of it, most of our artists were exiles. This also mirrors China and my expat existance.
Ned</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kudos to you Ken, for your insightful article. I do feel that things will change in China regarding the emphasis on rote as opposed to creativity.</p>
<p>Why do I think so?<br />
Well, long time ago in Dublin, I did a test (as we all did unknowingly)in sixth class to determine our secondary education. A test mostly about Gaelic and math with some history and geography thrown in. I&#8217;m useless at math and still am today and as for the Gaelic language. I absolutely hated it. It was torture to recite those verb tenses and it just did not seem like a living language to me. Plus I hated my teacher who often hit me and anyone else within arms distance.</p>
<p>It was decided (by my teacher)that I should go to the Christian Brothers. I must not have done too bad on the test, as everyone else was told they should learn a trade.<br />
Anyways, long story short - I was not allowed study art in the CBS due to my poor score in languages (meaning Gaelic) and was obviosly barred from studying French.<br />
Those 2 subjects where denied to me. I remember my parents trying to talk with the headmaster&#8230; to no avail.<br />
The point is this, back then in Ireland the education system was as bad as China is today. It&#8217;s come along way since. China has 20 years to go. Maybe longer. I&#8217;m sorry to say.</p>
<p>I was labeled as a kid that was retarded at languages and therefore uncreative/retarded in any artistic endeavor.<br />
It was only after I left school did I find an interest in languages and art. I went on to be interviewed on national TV (Cursai) in the Gaelic language. What was I interviewed about? My creativity in the art of Goldsmithing and jewellery design. I later went on to design the logo/seal of Office for the Irish senate.<br />
I never did learn French and I&#8217;ve forgotten most of my Gaelic, what with 12 years in the States and 3 in China. I have however become adept at Mandarin, (better than yours but not as good as J. Pasden&#8217;s).</p>
<p>That little test way back when I was 12, deeply effected my life and caused me and many like me great hardship in the years to come. A little like the college entrance exams here in China.</p>
<p>As you can see I still have a chip on my shoulder.</p>
<p>Education has always stifled creativity and it amazes me how so much music, art and literature has come out of a country (Ireland), then again, we must be doing somethign right, though for the life of me I never witnessed it. Come to think of it, most of our artists were exiles. This also mirrors China and my expat existance.<br />
Ned</p>
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		<title>By: Learnlets &#187; Neural meta-learning</title>
		<link>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/12/05/stunted/#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>Learnlets &#187; Neural meta-learning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 02:12:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/12/05/stunted/#comment-64</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;m not quite sure, off-hand, how we might teach the efficient working of memory (though they may be exercised, ala Brain Age), but I strongly support guided practice in problem-solving (which David Jonassen elegantly talks about; see his forthcoming chapter in Michael Allen&#8217;s eLearning Annual from Pfeiffer). It&#8217;s clear to me that the curriculum we need to worry about is about not passing knowledge tests (see Ken Carroll on the Chinese system). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] I&#8217;m not quite sure, off-hand, how we might teach the efficient working of memory (though they may be exercised, ala Brain Age), but I strongly support guided practice in problem-solving (which David Jonassen elegantly talks about; see his forthcoming chapter in Michael Allen&#8217;s eLearning Annual from Pfeiffer). It&#8217;s clear to me that the curriculum we need to worry about is about not passing knowledge tests (see Ken Carroll on the Chinese system). [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Carroll</title>
		<link>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/12/05/stunted/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Carroll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 03:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/12/05/stunted/#comment-61</guid>
		<description>ningmeng,

I asked a returning Chinese student about the difference in university approaches. She said that in China, the lecturers tell you what you need to know, including at the post-graduate level. Your job as a studetn is to take notes, read every blessed thing the professor tells you to, and memorize as much of it as you can. The answers to the tests are literal and all of them are to be found in the lectures/notes. In the UK, by contrast, she found that lectures were simply introductions to the topics. The lecturer offered insights to spark the learners' thinking. After that the studnets  were expected to research, form opinions, and describe their own interpretations. Clearly these two approahces will yield very different results in how graduates think.

austin,
I have a lot of Korean friends here in Shanghai. Their approach is even harsher on the children than the Chinese approach. They are obsessive about every possible moment of extra tuition for the kids. It seems to me that Korean kids have no say whatsoever in how their own childhood is spent. I don't know enough about Korea to speculate on how that effects the broader society, but my feeling is that children need to learn to make decisions and the only way to do that is by actually startign to make their own decisions when they are young.

Ken Carroll</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ningmeng,</p>
<p>I asked a returning Chinese student about the difference in university approaches. She said that in China, the lecturers tell you what you need to know, including at the post-graduate level. Your job as a studetn is to take notes, read every blessed thing the professor tells you to, and memorize as much of it as you can. The answers to the tests are literal and all of them are to be found in the lectures/notes. In the UK, by contrast, she found that lectures were simply introductions to the topics. The lecturer offered insights to spark the learners&#8217; thinking. After that the studnets  were expected to research, form opinions, and describe their own interpretations. Clearly these two approahces will yield very different results in how graduates think.</p>
<p>austin,<br />
I have a lot of Korean friends here in Shanghai. Their approach is even harsher on the children than the Chinese approach. They are obsessive about every possible moment of extra tuition for the kids. It seems to me that Korean kids have no say whatsoever in how their own childhood is spent. I don&#8217;t know enough about Korea to speculate on how that effects the broader society, but my feeling is that children need to learn to make decisions and the only way to do that is by actually startign to make their own decisions when they are young.</p>
<p>Ken Carroll</p>
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		<title>By: austin</title>
		<link>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/12/05/stunted/#comment-59</link>
		<dc:creator>austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 04:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/12/05/stunted/#comment-59</guid>
		<description>Korean education is similar in many ways.  When I asked my elementary students what time they go sleep each night, many told me 11, or midnight.  It's not because they are up late watching TV, they are studying.  From the minute they leave school at 3-ish, to the minute their head hits the pillow some 8-10 hours later, they are studying at private tutoring centers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Korean education is similar in many ways.  When I asked my elementary students what time they go sleep each night, many told me 11, or midnight.  It&#8217;s not because they are up late watching TV, they are studying.  From the minute they leave school at 3-ish, to the minute their head hits the pillow some 8-10 hours later, they are studying at private tutoring centers.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ningmeng</title>
		<link>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/12/05/stunted/#comment-57</link>
		<dc:creator>ningmeng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:25:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://ken-carroll.com/2007/12/05/stunted/#comment-57</guid>
		<description>With the time I've spent in Beijing as a foreign student at Tsinghua University, I'd go on to say that at the highest levels, China's education system rewards a nearly autistic approach to study.  Students are given few opportunities to train their minds to look at problems through multiple vantages--as economists, historians, scientists, and so on.  

Nothing could be further from the liberal arts spirit of education.  I see in Tsinghua an obsession with knowledge at the expense of insight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With the time I&#8217;ve spent in Beijing as a foreign student at Tsinghua University, I&#8217;d go on to say that at the highest levels, China&#8217;s education system rewards a nearly autistic approach to study.  Students are given few opportunities to train their minds to look at problems through multiple vantages&#8211;as economists, historians, scientists, and so on.  </p>
<p>Nothing could be further from the liberal arts spirit of education.  I see in Tsinghua an obsession with knowledge at the expense of insight.</p>
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