Comments on: Waking up to the economics of networked learning http://ken-carroll.com/2008/10/09/waking-up-to-the-economics-of-networked-learning/ networks, languages, and learning 2.0 Fri, 12 Mar 2010 00:45:50 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1 By: Bits Of Destruction | Learning on Your Terms http://ken-carroll.com/2008/10/09/waking-up-to-the-economics-of-networked-learning/#comment-11682 Bits Of Destruction | Learning on Your Terms Sun, 28 Dec 2008 04:27:43 +0000 http://ken-carroll.com/2008/10/09/waking-up-to-the-economics-of-networked-learning/#comment-11682 [...] destruction at work through the internet and posits some inevitable consequences. I’ve talked about this type of thing [...] […] destruction at work through the internet and posits some inevitable consequences. I’ve talked about this type of thing […]

]]> By: Free Language http://ken-carroll.com/2008/10/09/waking-up-to-the-economics-of-networked-learning/#comment-3167 Free Language Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:25:59 +0000 http://ken-carroll.com/2008/10/09/waking-up-to-the-economics-of-networked-learning/#comment-3167 Ken, Great article! Several aspects of networked learning are especially intriguing, namely access for very low cost (or even free, as you mentioned) to areas where educational systems and/or their integrity lacks, as well as the idea that at some time in the not-too-distant future, people might actually "accredit" someone for what they actually achieve with their education, rather than what their education achieves for them. It is akin to what's happening on the music scene, where artists are being recognized for their talent rather than their marketing budget, thanks to network distribution and low cost of production essentials. I see a future where people are essentially accrediting themselves by pursuing their own education through Open Courseware or solutions like Praxis Language's products and, by virtue of what they make happen in both virtual and real worlds, stake their own claim and demand "accreditation". Not the kind you pay thousands and thousands for and hang on the wall, but the kind that speaks for itself. Many thanks for continuing to bring focus on intriguing issues like these. Chapman Ken,

Great article! Several aspects of networked learning are especially intriguing, namely access for very low cost (or even free, as you mentioned) to areas where educational systems and/or their integrity lacks, as well as the idea that at some time in the not-too-distant future, people might actually “accredit” someone for what they actually achieve with their education, rather than what their education achieves for them.

It is akin to what’s happening on the music scene, where artists are being recognized for their talent rather than their marketing budget, thanks to network distribution and low cost of production essentials.

I see a future where people are essentially accrediting themselves by pursuing their own education through Open Courseware or solutions like Praxis Language’s products and, by virtue of what they make happen in both virtual and real worlds, stake their own claim and demand “accreditation”. Not the kind you pay thousands and thousands for and hang on the wall, but the kind that speaks for itself.

Many thanks for continuing to bring focus on intriguing issues like these.

Chapman

]]> By: standuke http://ken-carroll.com/2008/10/09/waking-up-to-the-economics-of-networked-learning/#comment-3098 standuke Sat, 18 Oct 2008 03:40:13 +0000 http://ken-carroll.com/2008/10/09/waking-up-to-the-economics-of-networked-learning/#comment-3098 I'm with Henning in that it is much easier to envision a 'division of labor' in which the school does the examining and 'credentialing' while much of the 'heavy lifting' of preparing and maintaining lessons, writing and grading quizzes, providing feedback and practice resources gets 'outsourced' to an online provider. Economic arguments pale in comparison to cultural habits when it comes to education, I'm afraid. Students often accept substandard resources and instruction in exchange for a prestigious (or just 'safe') name backing them up. It would make sense for ChinesePod to offer its services as an alternative to a traditional textbook at the university level. I'd guess there would be resistance from students and administrators who are (justifiably) wary of their professors' inclination to offload work onto teaching assistants, grad students, etc. The key is to make absolutely sure that the student experience is superior. (you'd like to think it would be easy but students will gripe about anything...) Probably the best migration path would be to convince some academic types to do a study--ChinesePod versus a control group. That would really be the best case scenario, really, as it would provide documentation, publicity, and a chance to CPod to experiment with a traditional undergrad population. Also, I'd start with the fanciest names first. I’m with Henning in that it is much easier to envision a ‘division of labor’ in which the school does the examining and ‘credentialing’ while much of the ‘heavy lifting’ of preparing and maintaining lessons, writing and grading quizzes, providing feedback and practice resources gets ‘outsourced’ to an online provider. Economic arguments pale in comparison to cultural habits when it comes to education, I’m afraid. Students often accept substandard resources and instruction in exchange for a prestigious (or just ’safe’) name backing them up.

It would make sense for ChinesePod to offer its services as an alternative to a traditional textbook at the university level. I’d guess there would be resistance from students and administrators who are (justifiably) wary of their professors’ inclination to offload work onto teaching assistants, grad students, etc. The key is to make absolutely sure that the student experience is superior. (you’d like to think it would be easy but students will gripe about anything…) Probably the best migration path would be to convince some academic types to do a study–ChinesePod versus a control group. That would really be the best case scenario, really, as it would provide documentation, publicity, and a chance to CPod to experiment with a traditional undergrad population. Also, I’d start with the fanciest names first.

]]> By: Ken Carroll http://ken-carroll.com/2008/10/09/waking-up-to-the-economics-of-networked-learning/#comment-3069 Ken Carroll Fri, 17 Oct 2008 05:33:53 +0000 http://ken-carroll.com/2008/10/09/waking-up-to-the-economics-of-networked-learning/#comment-3069 I think Goulniky's observation is interesting. Old habits die hard. As for Henning, the man should have his own blog or come work for us - these ideas are profound and insightful. Victoria, I don't kn ow much about the UK situation, but it seems that most education there is subsidized, ie, tax funded. But all institutions could benefit from the cost reduction that the netowrk in evitably enables. Orlando's is a very clear and simple example of one way the network is more efficient. Following on from there I think there ar many more. Ken I think Goulniky’s observation is interesting. Old habits die hard. As for Henning, the man should have his own blog or come work for us - these ideas are profound and insightful.

Victoria, I don’t kn ow much about the UK situation, but it seems that most education there is subsidized, ie, tax funded. But all institutions could benefit from the cost reduction that the netowrk in evitably enables.

Orlando’s is a very clear and simple example of one way the network is more efficient. Following on from there I think there ar many more.

Ken

]]> By: Orlando Kelm http://ken-carroll.com/2008/10/09/waking-up-to-the-economics-of-networked-learning/#comment-3059 Orlando Kelm Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:06:19 +0000 http://ken-carroll.com/2008/10/09/waking-up-to-the-economics-of-networked-learning/#comment-3059 You all might be interested to know that last week I was invited to teach a short course and to be a visiting professor at a well know university in Latin America (which might be best to not specifically name here). As part of the process they asked me to send the documents that would part of the course, so that they could print them all out and make a course packet. When I told them that my course would be 100% blog driven, had hundreds of links, would be paperless, and without a textbook, instead of getting a positive reaction, I could tell that they were a little frustrated with me. Turns out that they have a rule of sorts where they don't allow their students to take laptops into class, because it is distracting. "Bu hui ba!" (Thanks to CPod, that's a Chinese chunk I learned that means "No way, I can't believe it.") Truth told, I'm really looking forward to rocking this boat a bit! Wish me luck. You all might be interested to know that last week I was invited to teach a short course and to be a visiting professor at a well know university in Latin America (which might be best to not specifically name here). As part of the process they asked me to send the documents that would part of the course, so that they could print them all out and make a course packet. When I told them that my course would be 100% blog driven, had hundreds of links, would be paperless, and without a textbook, instead of getting a positive reaction, I could tell that they were a little frustrated with me. Turns out that they have a rule of sorts where they don’t allow their students to take laptops into class, because it is distracting. “Bu hui ba!” (Thanks to CPod, that’s a Chinese chunk I learned that means “No way, I can’t believe it.”) Truth told, I’m really looking forward to rocking this boat a bit! Wish me luck.

]]> By: Learning Pulse | Xyleme Learning Blog http://ken-carroll.com/2008/10/09/waking-up-to-the-economics-of-networked-learning/#comment-3024 Learning Pulse | Xyleme Learning Blog Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:31:06 +0000 http://ken-carroll.com/2008/10/09/waking-up-to-the-economics-of-networked-learning/#comment-3024 [...] Carroll: Will the economic crunch pave the way for widespread networked learning as a viable replacement for many venues of formal [...] […] Carroll: Will the economic crunch pave the way for widespread networked learning as a viable replacement for many venues of formal […]

]]> By: Victoria http://ken-carroll.com/2008/10/09/waking-up-to-the-economics-of-networked-learning/#comment-2893 Victoria Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:30:49 +0000 http://ken-carroll.com/2008/10/09/waking-up-to-the-economics-of-networked-learning/#comment-2893 I'm interested that you think education isn't already turned over to free market forces. Isn't it the case that for university degrees, for example, the institutions charge what they think families will pay for the students to attend? The only reason our fees are still low at the moment in the UK is that its not traditionally been common practice for parents to "save for college", but that's definitely the model the government has been moving us towards for the last ten years. The current financial situation may be the only thing that forces that process to regress, if the economic value of more graduates exceeds the cost of funding their creation. When I went through the "clearing" process for university places in 1997, I was offered a clearing place at Kings College London but due to a hiccup on the computer system processing my application I could not be issued a clearing reference number to claim it. When the reference number was issued a few days later, I called KCL back. They advised me there were still clearing places on the course, but only for foreign students - who at the time paid about £7,000 more each year to study the same degree. Sounds like market forces to me... I’m interested that you think education isn’t already turned over to free market forces. Isn’t it the case that for university degrees, for example, the institutions charge what they think families will pay for the students to attend?

The only reason our fees are still low at the moment in the UK is that its not traditionally been common practice for parents to “save for college”, but that’s definitely the model the government has been moving us towards for the last ten years. The current financial situation may be the only thing that forces that process to regress, if the economic value of more graduates exceeds the cost of funding their creation.

When I went through the “clearing” process for university places in 1997, I was offered a clearing place at Kings College London but due to a hiccup on the computer system processing my application I could not be issued a clearing reference number to claim it. When the reference number was issued a few days later, I called KCL back. They advised me there were still clearing places on the course, but only for foreign students - who at the time paid about £7,000 more each year to study the same degree.

Sounds like market forces to me…

]]> By: Golden Swamp » The money crisis spread quickly by network rules, so can education change http://ken-carroll.com/2008/10/09/waking-up-to-the-economics-of-networked-learning/#comment-2889 Golden Swamp » The money crisis spread quickly by network rules, so can education change Fri, 10 Oct 2008 11:11:33 +0000 http://ken-carroll.com/2008/10/09/waking-up-to-the-economics-of-networked-learning/#comment-2889 [...] Carroll included this illustration in a post on his blog yesterday about my recent post on how the economic crunch will speed networked learning. This picture (thanks [...] […] Carroll included this illustration in a post on his blog yesterday about my recent post on how the economic crunch will speed networked learning. This picture (thanks […]

]]> By: Henning http://ken-carroll.com/2008/10/09/waking-up-to-the-economics-of-networked-learning/#comment-2887 Henning Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:40:50 +0000 http://ken-carroll.com/2008/10/09/waking-up-to-the-economics-of-networked-learning/#comment-2887 Ken, I really like that economies-of-scale economics. Ever considered public funding for teaching - and thereby - keeping alive really rare languages? Another trend fosterd by the network: I see a further differentiation along the value chain for the future. Specialized providers of basic study content (CPod) vs. tool developers vs. "Skype teacher farms" (CPod executive) vs. test preparation vs. test taking (which for obvious reasons will not occur online for a while). The decoupling of test-taking & certification from the required teaching appears really promising to me. Especially for those private Universities / "eMBAs" the core motivation to enroll is not teaching but getting the degree. See the possible conflict of interests there? The network opens huge possibilities to efficiently train for the test while credible institutions are caring about objective test taking. In a sense, that HSK model might be leading the way. And the first sites that are geared at HSK preparation are also begin to materialize - and it amazes me that they are absolutely complementary to CPod in its current form of existence. Last not least: I think it is valuable to couple research and education. There is huge win-win potential for a bleeding-edge web-learning site to team up with various branches of research, from didactic, over linguistics, to computer sciences and information systems... All together, you have the potential to form powerful virtual teaching organizations with specialists for all sorts of subtasks. Ken,
I really like that economies-of-scale economics. Ever considered public funding for teaching - and thereby - keeping alive really rare languages?

Another trend fosterd by the network: I see a further differentiation along the value chain for the future. Specialized providers of basic study content (CPod) vs. tool developers vs. “Skype teacher farms” (CPod executive) vs. test preparation vs. test taking (which for obvious reasons will not occur online for a while).

The decoupling of test-taking & certification from the required teaching appears really promising to me. Especially for those private Universities / “eMBAs” the core motivation to enroll is not teaching but getting the degree. See the possible conflict of interests there?

The network opens huge possibilities to efficiently train for the test while credible institutions are caring about objective test taking. In a sense, that HSK model might be leading the way. And the first sites that are geared at HSK preparation are also begin to materialize - and it amazes me that they are absolutely complementary to CPod in its current form of existence.

Last not least: I think it is valuable to couple research and education. There is huge win-win potential for a bleeding-edge web-learning site to team up with various branches of research, from didactic, over linguistics, to computer sciences and information systems…

All together, you have the potential to form powerful virtual teaching organizations with specialists for all sorts of subtasks.

]]> By: goulniky http://ken-carroll.com/2008/10/09/waking-up-to-the-economics-of-networked-learning/#comment-2884 goulniky Fri, 10 Oct 2008 08:48:05 +0000 http://ken-carroll.com/2008/10/09/waking-up-to-the-economics-of-networked-learning/#comment-2884 I met mp3/4 *not* an option. I met mp3/4 *not* an option.

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