Excellent observations, as usual. I agree that something like our aporoach could work for pretty much any subject. If learning is a conversation, and i think it is, then having access to practitioners doing (modelling, demonstrating) the object of study and actually talking about that is good. (Joinin in the discussion then, is even better.) Stephen Downes gave an example recently of a physicist doing physics and sharing his throughts as he does experiments, as better than just having kids reading from dull, lifeless textbooks in the abstract.

I think you also have tremendous ideas here in terms of case studies and even the dreaded ‘canon’. If that’s what people want, then perhaps we should give it to them.

Please keep those ideas coming!

Ken

I’m fascinated by ChinesePod not only as a user/customer but also in terms of thinking about the educational possibilities in other fields. For instance, there is a lot of language acquisition in science, and I think there could be much to be gained from providing students the opportunity to listen to how people ‘really’ talk about science, as opposed to limiting their exposure to only classroom/textbook science.

In science as well as in conversational language there are some prerequisites that make natural markers for context. As I see it these prerequisites provide context above and beyond ‘learning objects’ (lessons) and social context. For instance in Chinese a learner needs to learn tones (first, I would say) and characters (later, probably, but not too much later). From what I see, if anything is missing from the ChinesePod experience it is these (pre)requisite learning markers—perhaps a deliberate omission to avoid imposing a ‘linear paradigm’ on the students? I only have the ‘basic’ subscription so I may be missing something…

I think learners, especially newbies, could be provided this type of context in the form of ‘case studies’ describing the experiences of various types of learners/users. ‘Here’s what so-and-so did, here’s how long it took, here’s what his/her motivations were, etc. etc.’

Another contextual cue could be provided by creating a ‘canon’ of grammar points and key vocabulary that are likely to be repeated each three months/year/whatever… Again, even as students are free to explore it might be helpful to provide them with a sort of syllabus (for the rest of us??) that helps them organize and prioritize lessons.

I think you’re actually barking up a very fruitful tree. Learning isn’t always done in preparation for a specific activity. However, if it is done for some meaningful activity, it is going to stick better than learning to no apparent purpose, and certainly better than learning only because you have to take a test. It’s also more rewarding.

Clearly, too, plugging memory over the right time sequences will make retention much more effective. We spend a lot of time working this through the podcast lessons - how many repetitions per 10 min block? This is also relevant for longer time periods.

I don’t think that most mobile learning will not be done in near real time. There are different types of learning activities - some are purely practical while others have broader educational objectives - a sense of personal development, or enlightenment, whatever. As long as the activity is meaningful to the learner on one level or the other, I think that even learning something well in advance of using it can be rewarding and useful.

Ken

I think you get more of a community learning situation with something like www.EnglishBaby.com - which is an English language learning site. The forums and chat rooms there play much more of a central role in terms of learning than they do with ChinesePod.

Although I don’t think that this is because of ChinesePod being poorly organized or anything - it’s just a different set of circumstances for the user base (and also a different age bracket and lifestyle for the users). EFL / ESL is a whole different kettle of fish, you get ESL students coming in committed at a young age, a number of whom hope to emigrate to or at the very least study extensively in an English-speaking country, who economically might not have the means to do so without jumping through quite a number of hoops.

A lot of the students start out with a pretty high competency level in English and live in a media environment which is saturated with spoken and written English. You also have a decent number of EFL teachers dropping in either to grind their own axes, ask for language exchanges, promulgate their religions, pick up women, etc.

My brain almost rusted shut without your posts to lubricate things. Thanks for two posts in quick succession.

I think the choice of how to use mobile devices to learn will to some extent be based on our social styles especially when you are seeking to prepare people linguistically to face social situations (there is more than one way to analyze social styles but I use the Analytical-Driver-Amiable-Expressive framework).

In terms of learning, Analyticals, for example, tend to need framework and preparation. In other words a mobile lesson would be something useful in preparing them for an experience rather than something they would use during the experience itself.

It seems at times that you are suggesting that mobile content will be consumed in the context of a near real-time experience. I am sure that will be true for some but, for others, mobile learning will still be just another way to prepare for a future experience.

If such is the case then for THESE KIND OF PEOPLE mobile learning will share more in common with location constrained learning (schools, homes) than it will be different.

Do you know of any research that talks about mobile learning in terms of social styles especially insofar as social styles can be correlated with our need for advance, task preparation?

This might appeal to all styles but I think analyticals might gravitate to this kind of format:

Five days preparation:
Lesson: Here is what you might hear in your setting.

One day preparation:
Lesson: Here is what you might want to say.

10 minute preparation:
Lesson: Review these phrases

In looking through this it occurs to me that timing is a key factor. Am I barking up the wrong tree on this?

Nigel, I actually know very little about computer games or Second Life but I guess it’s time to start looking into them.

Ken

I think possible one of the “side evolutions” of language learning would be something like the merging of online languages resources delivered like ChinesePod with Multi-user Online games. I’m not talking about ‘World of Podcraft’ specifically, but maybe a blending of something like ChinesePod with Habbo.com which is a virtual teen hangout.

Imagine a virtual world that you could log in, do language challenges (”quests”) and build up from being a newbie to a master. Along the way you could compete in language games with like-skilled individuals, before you unlock areas of the virtual world that are open to people who have mastered the previous areas.

It might seem a bit out-of-reach, but then I’m sure thats what alot of people thought about delivering language learning online, but you’ve shown that this is more than feasible, highly practical and also very valuable!

Indeed, the growing web2.0 and mobile capabilities will make it a very interactive connected world, there’s more positives in that then negatives.

I’d certainly appreciate any comments from you on what I’ve posited thus far on the topic.

ciao,
Clint